So What? A live recording of Marketing Over Coffee

Well, hey everyone. Happy Thursday. Welcome to So What, the Marketing Analytics and Insights Live Show. And as a special treat today, John and I are actually doing a live recording of marketing over coffee. So let's get all set up for that.

So, John, it's marketing over coffee. I'm turning it over to you. Just throwing it my way. Okay, yeah, we can jump right into what we've got going on. There's a bunch of stuff happening.

Uh, Christopher is on the road. He has been doing his road tour. And actually, we were talking with you a couple weeks ago. And as part of my co-working uh arrangement, I actually ended up getting bounced. We had it was a that's a long complicated story that nobody wants to hear.

But basically we were cut short. And so I was like, oh, we've got to get you back. We want to talk some more because we had a bunch of other stuff on the list too. And so leading off, what I wanted to kick into is project management, because this is something that you have a ton of experience from uh both on just normal corporate projects and then also software development lifecycle. And uh I've done a bunch of stuff in the same arena, so we have a whole list of gripes and complaints, but we figure we could start with some best practices and where things are going.

Um but yeah, to lead off with, I guess that just what's uh well, yeah. Let me lay down a little bit more foundation too, though, as we go. Uh over in analytics for marketers. If you're not familiar with that, we're talking about every week. That's where we have discussions and we kind of get the initial research for this kind of stuff.

We talked about project management, and so the list that came out of there was uh here's the whole rundown. Um we've got Asana, um, Jira, Monday, Trello, MS Project, Reich, Base Camp, Airtable, Excel. So that's beyond my like Rike, I've never used. I do you even know what that one is? No.

Okay. So, but uh Asana has been kind of king of the hill over the past couple years for everything that I've seen as far as just a lot of people using it and easy access. Um, but yeah, where do you want to start on that list? I guess. So if we're gonna start taking pot shots at tools and process, where do you want to go?

Well, I was trained more formally on Microsoft Project, which I still have a soft spot for. It's very there's there's a lot of good about Microsoft Project. Um, but unless you're in Microsoft shop, you tend to not have access to Microsoft Project as a standalone. So, you know, you're not gonna find a company who's a Google shop that's also going to have Microsoft Project. I mean, that does that scenario does exist, but typically if you have the Microsoft Suite or you're in Microsoft 365 or something like that, then you use Microsoft Project.

If you're using SharePoint, you likely have Microsoft Project, those kinds of things. But that's not exclusively true. So we also know a lot of companies that will use SharePoint and a Jira or a Basecamp or a Trello or all of the above. And I think that's really where I'd want to start is what I've seen in my experience is companies are using a bit of all of the above. And the goal of project management software is to do just that.

It's to manage tasks, it's to manage resources. Sometimes it's to manage budget, but that gets a little tricky. That's something that you can do in a lot of these tools. But at the core, it's a task management tool, a project management tool. You can call it portfolios, you can do whatever.

So where I see it sort of get overconflated is we're asking these tools to do many things, and we're not giving the tools the data that they need in order to do the things that we're asking them to do. So, for example, you know, we want to know, you know, is Chris over resourced. Well, in order to know that, we have to get every little last piece of data into the tool in order to see that. But then we also have to make sure we're keeping it up to date. And so a lot of it comes down to process.

So the tools are great. I would say, you know, honestly, you can't go wrong with any tool. Where it goes wrong is the people in the process of someone actually managing it, keeping it up to date. That's why project managers exist. I love them.

I was one. Your sole focus is keeping these tools up to date. And it is a thankless job because as soon as you get the information in, it's changed. And so you're constantly chasing people. And a lot of these tools, depending on what you're doing, aren't set up for like agile development.

For example, they're more waterfall. So, like those are all the things that you have to like know and take in consideration. John, I could talk your ear off about project management tools all day long. So I just want to kind of like stop there. Hopefully, I've given you enough of a foundation to jump off from.

Yeah, right. To jump in, well, I think admitted very important point that people miss, because I hadn't even thought about this as we were doing the outline, is the difference between project management and task management. Really, a bunch of these tools are task managers. Like that's where they exceed it's just kind of like here's all the things that they need to do, but it's not project management. And it's funny, a lot of them are good at like, okay, here's the people that are on this one.

So that's where it goes. But very few of them will go as far as budget, you know, putting dollar figures on things to actually see. And that is part of project management. So yeah, most of these tools are really only task managers. Um, and it's interesting too, talking about how it is it's all about data and integrations, right?

Like, there's a lot of tools on this list that are not coming from a project background, whether it's software or some other area, but it makes sense because it can grab data from those other systems or processes. You know, if you've got JIRA, you're you're unlocking your whole software development project, you know, whole process and being able to pull in the developer time and hours spent and features and um support tickets, like all that kind of stuff, which makes a project management you know tool a lot more powerful, and you're basically skipping all these steps of having to integrate stuff and get things going. Um, but I want to talk about project. I didn't want it to be a full-on complaint session about Microsoft Project, but I think a key point with that is that it was such a great tool during its heyday that it still survives, like literally everyone wants it dead, but it's you know, it maintains and it lives. Um, because you can buy a standalone version.

But even we I yesterday I went to the Microsoft site, and when you try to go to it at 404, you can't even get to it, like you it's not accessible. Um, but one of the key win with that that I'd always seen was the fact that you can have your project and it handles dependencies so well. You know, if one thing somebody has to take a vacation X week, you update the project plan and it moves everything, you know, everything that that person has to be in on now gets pushed out a week because they're not around. And that's what you want with project management software is for it to save you when you don't realize that, like, oh, you know, because of this weird random thing of these five people being on vacation, you know, these four weeks, two months from now, that is gonna put our you know, deadline in jeopardy, and we need to work around that. Um, so yeah, I don't know.

Again, we're uh talking as both project fans, but is there anything else that kind of comes to mind when you're talking about project and how it compares to the other tools in the stack that are um, you know, uh with Microsoft Project, people saw it as inflexible, whereas I saw the tool as incredibly powerful. Yes, it was more suited for a waterfall process. Uh, we tried to make it work for a more iterative, like an agile software development process. At the time, at least, it really wasn't well suited to do that. It really was more suited for a waterfall process.

But a lot of the pros, and I know that some of the tools like Asana and Jira and probably even Monday and Basecamp and they probably all do these things. But again, it's you know, the data that goes in, like Microsoft Project, you could list all your resources, you could list their hourly rates, you could list their working hours, or how many hours a day they were available, for example, and it would start to build out this resourcing plan. So, you know, we would use it for, we had a lot of cross-functional teams. And so I would have my developers and my designers and my marketers and my salespeople, and you know, the research team and the epidemiologists. And I would have all of those resources in and all of that data in because I was being asked questions like, how much is this?

If we do this thing, how much does it cost? And I could have done that on a spreadsheet. I could have said, this is what they're telling me, but then I couldn't also build out that timeline with dependencies as easily. And so Microsoft Project, at least from my point of view, was really the gold standard of this is the tool that does all the things you want it to do. And now you have, you know, so we use Asana internally at Trust Insights, and we've started using it more like we would use a Microsoft Project with resources and milestones and dependencies and showing the team like this is what that looks like.

Is it as powerful as Microsoft Project? In my opinion, again, one person's opinion, no. But I do think that if we start to use it consistently in the way that we're hoping to, then we can get there. I know Basecamp is a really powerful tool. Uh, JIRA is a really powerful tool.

I personally tend to think of JIRA as more of like a support ticket tool, but I think that it really is, you know, you can use it as a project management tool. You know, it's interesting. And I know that we're gonna talk a little bit about the SDLC, but in my mind, there's a difference between the project lifecycle and the software development lifecycle. And this was always a point of tension at my old company because depending on who you talk to, the software development lifecycle was it. That was all you did, and that included the project lifecycle.

But the but if you talk to anyone in the PMO, and I would love to get people's comments on this, see how other people are feeling. You know, the software development lifecycle was part of the overall project lifecycle. It was just a segment of it versus the software development lifecycle was the end all be all of everything. You know, what it what's your experience with that, John? Yeah, no, I everything you've said is right on the mark.

And we will we'll dive in a little bit more on software development lifecycle because that has its own batch of stuff. But one thing I wanted to do is I'll just run down the tool list and throw some, you know, my impressions on some of these out and see if you agree as far as how some of this stuff works. I have Asana and Monday are both kind of similar that they're leader of SAS. Like it's easy to get into, everybody can do it, they kind of understand where it goes. Um, Jira is just what you said, ticketing.

There, there's a lot of the whole Atlassian um infrastructure is there. So there's all kinds of other stuff to jump into it. Trello, I did want to mention the key with Trello for me has always been cards, and that's more for an individual thing. If cards are part of your workflow, like I'll have even for event management cards are great because you just want to be able to move a card along the board and see where things are at. And uh a lot of the other tools can't handle the cards as well.

I know I know there's a I'm not up to date on the state of cards for everybody, but I know Trello is very good at that end of things. Um, and then Basecamp and a lot of marketing and content areas is just great because you can throw in all the other assets in there. You know, I know there's agencies that will have a base camp set up for every client, and then you can have your clients accessing their own content and proofing stuff, and you can have all the digital assets in there and people can get to them. So that makes it a unique solution over there. And then just Airtable and Excel.

Yeah, I if you're in a no-budget situation, you can do these tools that are just beefed up spreadsheets and that will work. It can get you there. I don't know. Did what do you think about that? Is there anything I missed on that line or things you you know see differently for some of those tools?

No, I think that that, you know, that's a really good uh summary. And I want to go back to Basecamp because Basecamp, similar to tools like Notion, uh, which isn't surprisingly on this list, or um basically they kind of become almost like an ecosystem. And I think that that's what a lot of these tools are trying to be is sort of an ecosystem of here's your repository of all of your assets and all of your background information. And so almost like that one stop shop. And so I think that, you know, if that's what you're trying to create, then there are definitely tools that do that.

Well, basecamp being one of them. Um, you know, there's a lot of chat functions included in those systems. So you don't have to have like an external Discord or a Slack or email. Everything can be contained within it. That's what SharePoint was meant to do as a complement to Microsoft Project.

So you have your repository for all of your assets and everything, and then you have your project planning tool, whereas tools like Basecamp and Notion kind of encompass all of that. Um, you know, but you make certain sacrifices when you know you're saying this is more of a community tool versus a project management tool. And so it really comes down to what are you trying to do with the tool? Um, you know, I think that I personally don't love SharePoint. I have not met a person who likes SharePoint.

I've developed in SharePoint, I've showed up multiple SharePoint instances. Maybe it's come a long way, but I think having two different pieces of software that are meant to talk to each other is clunky. Whereas if you have like a basecamp or a notion where it's all encompassed in one thing, that's really helpful. I mean, my brain is kind of spinning in a multi in multiple different ways, trying to think of like everything I know about project management tools. So you need to rein to me back in, John.

Yeah, well, they're all over the place. And I do, I think we've at least given people a rough idea of some places where they can start, you know, depending on what they want to do. But it is a good transition is right into software development lifecycle, which we've it's kind of we we've come at it from the tactic. And what we really wanted to talk about, the what was on the topic list is this idea that so many marketing people now are facing their managers or their boards or whatever who are saying to them you need to be doing more AI, you know, let's have an AI initiative. And it's just all about the tools.

And one of the things that we've seen over and over again, and you've championed is this idea that you need to apply the software development lifecycle, because these are just like any other software tools, you know, all this AI stuff is used to do other things in the business. And the key is not to just start cherry picking tools and messing around. The idea is fix, you know, find a business problem, do a 5P analysis, which we talk about at Trust Insights all the time, and using the software development lifecycle too, and to get in there and figure out how this thing gets implemented implemented, set up, what are the dependencies for it? You know, how does it get um tested? How does it get bug fixed?

All these things are just normal software development process. So I guess you know, backing up, we should probably jump into uh software development lifecycle a little bit more though to talk about that. So when you're saying that people should be using more SDLC principles for AI, where do they start? What's the the first thing that she they should be doing? Requirements gathering.

That is the leadoff of any SDLC. So the SDLC, software development lifecycle, um, the standard, like basic phases of an SDLC are requirements gathering, design, development, testing, and then you know, iteration, refinement, and then you sort of start all over again. How quickly you move through those phases really depends on the kinds of processes that you have built into your uh organization as a whole. And so, you know, I've mentioned waterfall and I've mentioned agile, very high level. You know, I'm not trying to, you know, come after people who subscribe to the agile manifesto.

It has its place and time. But at a high level, waterfall is if you think about like a set of stairs, everything is dependent. You can't move down to the next step until you've completed phase one. So you have to finish your requirements before you can move on to design. You have to finish design before you can move on to development.

Whereas with Agile, you do a lot of these things concurrently. You take the plan as a whole, you break it down into smaller pieces, and then you do uh define design, development, testing, iteration, and then you sort of start all over again while doing the next milestone in uh parallel. And so it's meant to move quicker. And what I was actually saying to Chris this morning, because Chris was asking, he's like, you know, with AI, does it sort of negate the need for agile because you're moving so much faster? And I said, no, absolutely not, because it's a process, it's the coding itself is going faster.

The process itself is not, if you can't get the right requirements. And so to answer your question, that's a very long way to answer your question, John. Where you start with the SDLC is requirements gathering. And too often, AI or not, people are jumping right into coding and developing and just sort of like, let's see what happens. Yeah, and it's interesting too.

I actually haven't done any you know seen any research on this, but with so much stuff being web based now, it seems like continuous development is the majority of stuff that's happening out there. You know, I can't think of many software products that are doing big bang stuff. I guess for you know, phone um infrastructure, you know, big giant OS or versions of Windows and things like that. But everything else, yeah, it's just and I there's a whole rat hole to go down with agile development. I did we had done a bunch of research on this years ago.

But this it's basically this idea that by testing and implementing features and functions on a weekly or faster basis. Um, when you look at your calendar, the problem with waterfall is if you if you're doing quarterly releases or greater, you can have entire quarters that get lost and wasted, because if something gets broken or some feature doesn't take off the way it's supposed to, you just have these tremendous losses that you can rack up. And this idea of constantly refining and deploying gives you an advantage where at the end of the year, you know, you're never gonna have a bad quarter, like you may have a couple bad weeks, but it it just makes a lot more sense. And yeah, uh for folks who haven't dug it into it, this is there's a completely uh religious level of fanaticism over agile and what it is and the you know the manifesto versus what actually happens in the real world and things like that. And we don't want to get um too, you know, torn up and all that, but um, yeah, we'll kind of leave it at that.

So um one thing I wanted to throw out too is talking about these situations where people are told that they need to do more AI, like how do you deal with that? One uh method for that, and we've used this, Chris has made it the core of training, is that there's seven general use cases for AI. You've got extraction, classification, summarization, rewriting, synthesis, question answering, and generation. And so that's an easy go-to. If somebody's like, hey, you need to do more AI.

Well, you can say, okay, well, which of these seven things do you want us to start chasing? And that at least, you know, gets you out of the like, oh, let's just spend two weeks figuring out what's out there in the world. You can at least pick something and then try and solve that problem. And that will, you know, now allow you to do some requirements gathering and allow you to apply the five Ps and get you know to where you need to go. Any other, you know, comments or ideas, feedback on that and how people should do this and you know get faster to that point where they're doing requirements gathering.

Um, well, I want to acknowledge uh we have a comment uh from our friend Brian Piper who says vibe coding is throwing a wrench into the SDLC. And Brian, I don't disagree with you. So we did a we recorded a live stream and probably a podcast too over at Trust Insights uh about vibe coding. And I personally, again, NF1, but I have a lot of experience with the SDLC. I think that there's a lot of danger.

It's a very harsh word, but there's a lot of things to be careful of when you're vibe coding, because vibe coding makes it sound like anybody can code, which is true. However, if you don't know what you're doing in terms of software development, then it can go wrong really quickly. So for example, if you don't know that you have to put in, you know, uh privacy protocols, or you, you know, your software should not be hackable, for example, or if you're collecting information, how do you keep that information secure? So if you're like, I want to build an app, let me just vibe code it and see, you know, what happens. The machine's gonna do it for me.

If you don't know the foundational pieces of the software development lifecycle, or even just software development general best practices, it could go really wrong. And so I agree, Brian, that vibe coding is sort of runs in the SDLC because it skips that foundational piece of let's write down some requirements. Now you can use generative AI to write requirements. You can say, hey, generative AI, large language model, I want to do a thing, but first I want to make sure I have requirements so that it doesn't go off the rails. Can you help me do that?

Absolutely, you can do that. So I think, John, to answer your question, the way that you're getting faster is you're using these tools as almost like the note taker. You still have to have the idea, but it's gonna also sort of like, hey, did you think about this? Hey, what about privacy? Hey, what about governance?

Hey, what about security? It can ask you those questions if you say, I want to do this as safely as securely, best practices, protect my customers. It's gonna go, oh, those are words that I know. So let me make sure I'm asking those questions, provided you know what you're doing, even at a base level, like so you can say, hey, generative AI, what did I miss? That's a great place to start.

Yeah, right. Doing doing checkup. And there is uh for touching on what Brian said, there's two levels. There is totally the running with scissors problem, right? People building stuff that they've never built before and don't understand.

And like you said, yeah, privacy and security. Um, but then there is also for experienced developers. I have seen all these cases of developers, you know, becoming five, six times more productive because they're just able to grind out code, and that's a whole different thing. I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on what you know how that works or where that goes because that's a whole other thing. But you just said something really important.

You said experienced developers who are becoming five, six, 10x. So like they know what they're doing. So it totally makes sense that generative AI would make them more productive because they know what they're doing. And that to me is the key. And so vibe coding, yes, is throwing a wrench in the SDLC, but not for people who understand and practice the SDLC.

All right, that makes sense. Yeah, and keeping on the MOC timeline, we gotta roll ahead a little bit here. I did have one thing that I wanted to throw out that I saw there's an article about talking about geo. People are talking about SEO, you know, search engine optimization. Well, generative engine optimization is geo um or GEO.

I my my first thought was just like, no, I don't want that. Like, bring me something else. Um we seem to be on the same page. I'll I do have a link on that. There were some stats about um amount of traffic that's going to chat instead of organic search results.

And they're saying that it's only three or four percent of the total volume of search. You know, it's growing, but it's not, it's been kind of overblown as um what people should be afraid of. Um, I also wanted to throw out Oracast. I had a test deployment successful. I have finally gotten that to work after playing around with that.

I I've talked about it on previous shows, but just a quick take on that is this idea that you basically would go onto your phone and look at the audio playing around you, and you can just push and you can listen to what's there. And it's multi-point Bluetooth is really what this is. So, you know, Bluetooth is hamstrung where just you can listen to the music you're playing. And a lot of phones now will do a second person. Somebody else can share that thing.

But this is where you set up a box that's streaming. I mean, I have a tiny box smaller than a pack of Tic Tacs that uh you could plug into an iPod or into your computer and play audio, and groups of people could, you know, hear that or listen to that. And the use case that I've been crazy about is at airports, you know, it at your gate, your gate could have its own AuraCast. And so you could be anywhere in the airport, but you're gonna hear, hey, they're boarding, you know, your plane now. And uh, there's obviously a ton of use cases for museums and movie theaters and places where you know lots of people now.

You just see some of these places where they have these crazy devices and it's Wi-Fi enabled or what you know, there's just all this stuff, and just make that all go away. It's if you have Oracast headphones and you have a phone, boom, that's it, you can access this. So that does work and and run. Um also random follow-up. I was talking about car audio.

I destroyed the car battery on our car, which uh I am not dead or didn't lose any limbs or anything. So I'm marking that a complete success. But basically, as I was used reattaching the car battery, the wrench flipped off and it closed the circuit between the two uh terminals and you know, instantly heated up to 5,000 degrees and just about melted the wrench and uh killed me. So I wanted to do a PSA for folks to uh you know, make sure you've got your battery terminals covered when you got the wrenches flying around. Um and then media stuff we had Wednesday is out uh on Netflix, Wednesday Adams, of course.

If you're not familiar with it, they did season one, season two is back. I didn't you guys said you watched it. What was your take on that? Yeah, we watched the first episode last night, and we both uh within the first few minutes had the same reaction of huh, they definitely went more dark this this season. Like it's I feel like the first season was a good introduction, like it was like a little bit more lighthearted.

Um, you know, I know that the actress Jenna Ortega was not a huge fan of focusing on like Wednesday's love life. And I know that in season two, that's not really part of the storyline at all. And she is thrilled about it. She's like, that's not what this character is about. It's much darker, it's focused more on, you know, the things that Wednesday is interested in.

You know, so if you haven't seen it, I don't want to give away too much. But yeah, it's it's interesting. And of course, it's Tim Burton. And so if you know any of his stuff, like you're like, wow, this is so Tim Burton. And I think he's done a fantastic job with it so far.

Yeah, no, they came charging out of the gate in the first episodes. I uh if you haven't seen it, I just it's not like anything else out there. You know, it's only we have so many sequels and you know, stuff getting retreaded, and this is just completely original, which makes it fantastic. So you want to check out that. And then on Nerdwatch, I had the 4K Dolby restoration of Tron for old school tech movies.

They've completely kind of freshly brushed that up and made it look cool again. So that's a big deal. And then I'm actually going to uh fan expo in Boston, which is basically the Comic Con. They don't, you know, it's not the official brand Comic-Con, uh, but yeah, my son wants to go hit that this weekend. So we're gonna be down there and yeah, that should be interesting.

I'll have uh plenty to report back on that. But um yeah I I did that uh quite a few years back. I went we went to the Boston version of the Comic Con and it was interesting because we were on uh the T, uh the MBTA, you know, we call it the T in Boston. And it was the same day there was a Red Sox game. There was uh a Bruins like preseason or something going on and then there was Comic Con.

And so you had all those different cultures sort of like colliding on one train car, which was really fascinating. Um but we actually we went there and were able to get the autograph of the guy who created uh Mad magazine which was pretty cool. Oh that's very cool. Uh Jaffe yeah god that's um Saul Colt has worked with a bunch of those guys from there. But yeah that's that's a good grab because that's uh Mad Magazine has its own cult following and yeah I grew up with that that was uh you know comedy like you couldn't get it there's no Simpsons without Mad Magazine that's for sure.

And I always looked forward to the trifold in the back. Right, right the hidden the hidden thing. Yeah oh god we're dating ourselves with old print stuff that that nobody cares about anymore. All right I want to give a plug of course the marketing over coffee text line is at 617 8125494. Um and again analytics for marketers for trust insights and yeah that wraps up the MOC stuff.

I don't know is there any uh stuff you want to do for so what things you want to cover the bonus content for people that stay on the live stream here. Bonus content. Um, you know, so if we're switching gears and we go back to the trust Insights background, um, you know, we just thought it'd be really interesting this week to do a live recording of one of our podcasts. And so marketing over coffee being uh John and Chris's podcast. I occasionally crash it uh when Chris is out of town.

But, you know, uh I know that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, videos of people recording their podcasts and you know, lots of live streams, but marketing over coffee in particular, like John, you don't use the video that uh you record with. So I thought it would be fun for people who are longtime fans to be able to actually see like here's what we're doing. Like it doesn't look different from the live stream or anything, but it's a different, it's different content. So I just thought it would be interesting. Um, do you think that you would ever I know I ask you this all the time, but would you ever put up a YouTube channel and start putting up the uh videos from oh yeah, we know we have there's a YouTube channel, it just it doesn't get a ton of play.

It's I'll throw certain episodes up there once in a while, and then we do have the transcripts get um basically uh auto-transcribed, and then the audio goes up on there. So, but yeah, it's the the thing for us is always been we've had so many listeners that have talked about hey, it's we want the audio podcast. You know, this is when we're at the gym or when we're driving. We don't have time to sit down and watch it. But the thing that's changed is like you have to be doing video on YouTube, you know, like uh we always have to add more stuff, more content.

And it's fun. I was even listening to um there was another marketing podcast that was talking about this today, and that's the whole challenge of like you want to do these clips, but people are using these automated tools, and the clips are terrible, and they miss good clips. So it's like, how do you manage all this? And yeah, it's just, you know, as part of the workload, video is always falling to the bottom of the pile for me. But yeah, there is there is value to it.

And then if you can cross over to get that point where you get thousands of people watching a stream and you're you're constantly getting feedback and stuff. But yeah, we we talk to big busy people, and it's the same thing with Trust Insights fans, you know, like they have work to do. They're they want the deep dive of the stuff and they appreciate the video when they can do it. But you know, it's gotta be on demand because appointment is just a challenge on the B2B side. Well, and I had to laugh because you know, we you know uh we're very transparent.

We use a lot of AI tools. And I know that so Chris, who does the post-production for our podcast, um he has, you know, his scripts and his processes, and every single week without fail, it cuts me off mid-sentence in the promo video. And I'm like, dude, just like let it do the whole sentence, but that would require actually manually doing it, not using the AI. And I've I've talked to a lot of people who have had the same complaint, like they want to make the process faster. They don't have time to edit out all the clips.

But what happens when you let AI do it is that it will cut off mid-sentence or it will take things so wildly out of context that like if you had just like a few seconds more of preamble, then the sentence that was being chosen would make sense. Um, you know, so I'm sure there's people who specialize in that particular thing. I would love to hear from them and like what it is that we're doing wrong that we should be fixing. Um, if you want to head over to our free Slack group, trust insights.ai/slash analytics for marketers, tell us how to better use AI powered video editing software so that our promo clips don't look just all hacked together. I would love that.

Because we also we record the newsletter. I would love to do promo clips for that, but ain't nobody got time. I would love to use more promo clips from the podcast, not just the one that we post once a week. And all of the other videos we create, we do the live stream, like, you know, we're doing this for marketing over coffee. Like, I would love to use all of that footage, but we're a small team and we don't have time to do all of that editing in a way that feels like it was done thoughtfully.

Yeah, well, that's it's just that's the dirty little secret of these tools that nobody talks about. It's like, yeah, it can do it, but you pretty much need somebody to watch it and confirm that it got the right thing and it's the best one. And so now you've got a human in the whole mix, anyways. So have, you know, do you want them to pick the clips too? Um yeah, that's interesting.

I know there's some other tools out there, and Adobe has some stuff. Like, I think a great way to do it would be is if there was a way where as we're doing this, we had a marker to tap. You know, we could say that, oh, hey, that was a great point, and then grab 30 seconds before that. That's something that could work. I'll have to dig around and see if there's anything that can do that as part of uh part of the recording process, because that would make something more interesting.

Because yeah, it's this idea of like running it and getting four things out of the grab bag and having to watch them and see which ones are any good. Like that's you're just starting to chew up a bunch of time. It's not really saving you the hours that um, you know, that we would all like to see with this kind of stuff. Yeah, no, I agree. I I think that that's an interesting idea.

Um anything else for uh the marketing over coffee episode for today that we didn't get to cover because of the. So, for those who don't know, as we recorded the live version of Marketing Over Coffee, unlike the live stream, which can go on for like 45 minutes to 60 minutes, marketing over coffee is a shorter form podcast so John you typically run like 20 to 30 minutes right yeah well the goal is to shoot for like 22 you know I mean back in the day when it was you know well as we're heading to now back in the office the idea is you've got to commute or you've got to work out that's you know the idea was not to do one of these podcasts where you're a single marketing talking head talking for an hour 30 you know that the that's just way too much stuff so yeah the idea was kind of like get three or four key points out there and make it done in less than 25 minutes so people can go on to their next guest or whatever. But and the other thing we talked about like reviewing tools or giving feedback on stuff always actionable you know something that you can take away as soon as you're done with so but yeah yeah we got clipped I was going back through the rundown to see if there was anything else that got got munched. I guess the big one was K-pop demon slayers I had that on the list as exciting stuff. I have no idea what that is you haven't seen oh well so Korean pop they have a whole movie about this fact that they're a Korean girl band is actually protecting the world from demons overrunning us and so it's a it's big with the kids the kids love this stuff you gotta check this out well see there's there's my problem I don't have any kids in the house.

Yes I know kids you need that uh constant influx but it's running wild it's been number one or two on the movie on Netflix for the past couple weeks because it's just been on fire the thing has been huge. So yeah I had that over in her Slack group our good friend Jenny Dietrich was mentioning that uh she's gotten really into the music from the K pop Demon Slayers, uh, or whatever. Like, I think she said it's really catchy. So I'll have to check it out just to like even see what the heck is going on. I try to when I hear of something, I at least try to look it up to see like what it is, so that I can have somewhat of an intelligent conversation about it.

But this time I'm lost. Oh, well, you should definitely dig in then. Yeah. And over it's it's on fire on Spotify too. There's a couple playlists from the movie.

And yeah, you I mean, the thing is is that it's perfectly engineered pop. You know, I mean, it's just as shiny and perfect as it can be. But it is amazing to see. There's a lot of stuff you'll hear. You'll be like, oh my god, that is Queen, or that is, you know, Huey Lewis, or that is REM.

Like you can see the influences as somebody who's a huge fan of music. You will completely love, you know, playing uh playing the guess at game as you listen to these songs and try and figure out where it comes from because yeah, there's so many themes that they pick up to just make this bulletproof pop candy that uh yeah, it's worth checking out. I'll dig one up and throw it in the MOC show notes so people can dig in and click around and listen. But yeah, if you're listening for ear candy, you know, just fun that's not gonna um it's not gonna bring you down that you can't miss with K-Pa. Um, did you ever see now we're into sort of like the devolved version that John and I do at the end of every show?

Did you ever see there's a clip of Ed Sheeran? And I think he's on some talk show. I'd have to look it up and I'll find you uh the YouTube clip, John, where basically he's saying that every song can be reduced down to the same three or four chords. And so he's sitting there with his guitar and he's a you know, he's a really talented musician. He's like, he's like, give me a song.

And he's like playing these like three or four chords. And like it doesn't matter what song the host gave him, he was able to play it within that those constraints. And the host was like, that is crazy. Yeah, no, that's it. Like Pockabell's canon is one, you can there's a bunch of stuff you can YouTube.

You can basically take Pocket Bell Scan. There's tons of songs that have been taken on that. And yeah, there's a riff on Taylor Swift. She has a chord regression she always uses. Um and then there's if for old school music folks, Billy Joel has a thing on HBO that has just come out a huge tale of his whole life.

And he talks about stealing from classical music all the time. I mean, he's like Uptown Girl is basically Mozart that he just kind of sped up and got moving. So yeah, these the idea of people just using these tropes over and over again is uh yeah, you know, there's certain music that we love, and I don't know, you can get really deep into it as far as like that's what connects us, you know, these these uh you know, drums and having a pulse and the music, and and that's all part of the human experience that we can't quantify, and it's it brings more to our lives. One of my favorite interviews is Dave Grohl sitting down with Frell, and Forrell's like, you know, you're this amazing drummer. And Dave Grohl's like, stop calling me an amazing drummer.

And he's like, and for all's like, what are you talking about? You were in Nirvana, you did this. And he's like, Yeah, if you listen to Smells Like Teen Spirit, I basically pulled everything from disco. And so Forrell's like sitting there, he's like, Oh my god. And so Dave Grohl is like, you know, showing how he did it, and it's all the upbeats from disco, and you're like, Oh my god, smells like teen spirit is just disco.

No, he's totally stole the gap band for uh yeah, yeah. And I used to roll had like talked to the guy from the gap band, he's like, Hey, I stole all your stuff. And the guy's like, Yeah, I know. You know, you owe me some money. I mean, it's fascinating.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, this type of conversation is something that John and I, you know, when it gets to be like the holidays, we'll record episodes of Marketing Over Coffee, uh, that talk like strictly about music. Like we've tried to do just music shows. So if you're interested in John and I doing that, you know, maybe with some live audience participation, you know, hit us up at TrustInsights.ai/slash analytics for marketers, or leave a comment on marketing over coffee, or just find us and let us know because that's the kind of thing that we could totally talk about all day long. Uh, we tried to do what, five for Friday.

And that was gosh, six, seven years ago we tried to do that. And quite honestly, we just ran out of time. Like we wanted to do it. It's a passion project. We just couldn't go.

Tom Webster ran with that for a little while, and he is just a music genius. But this is so this is something we could do when we're at Prof Speed2B in Boston in the fall, and Tom's down there too. We could do an Aura cast of uh, you know, do a silent disco. People could uh pop on their headphones and listen to some tunes. So yeah, if you're on the B2B list for uh for marketing profs, give us a yell on that because we can we should definitely put something together on that front.

Yeah, we should start doing the uh spinning up the Friday DJ as well. Uh, you were doing that for a while. It's yeah, it's the same thing. Well, even TT Live turntable. I I think that is like the coolest music thing going, but it's just yeah, there's only so many hours in the day, and I don't have the time to be dead mouse or um DJ call it or whatever you want to say.

Um, but yeah, I could just be spending obscure tunes all the time. But um, yeah, everybody likes to be their own DJ. I think that's really the the punchline on that one. Yeah. All right.

Well so for those watching, this was a live recording of Marketing Over Coffee. Um, if you want to subscribe to Marketing Over Coffee, go over to Marketing Over Coffee.com. Um, if you want to sponsor Marketing Over Coffee, you can go ahead and go to Marketing Over Coffee.com or you can find us at TrustInsights.ai slash contact, and you can still find John there. Um, and if you just want to tell us the kind of stuff that you want to hear about on future live streams or future episodes of the podcast, go to trustinsights.ai slash analytics marketers to join our free Slack community with over 4,000 uh friends and marketers and people asking, answering questions. Uh it's a good time.

And tomorrow's Friday, and so Fridays are unhinged, and we ask non work questions, and sometimes they go off the rails, and sometimes I just let that happen. Yeah, no, that's always fun on Fridays. Everybody like it's just like the board lights up when you throw those questions on us. Yeah, definitely jump in on that if you're looking for something to you know, both write it off as work and have some fun. That's right.

All right, John, I think that's it for this week. That sounds good. It was a great time, and yeah, we will see you around. We'll be back again next week. Thanks for watching today.

Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you're watching it. For more resources and to learn more, check out the Trust Insights Podcast at TrustInsights.ai slash TI podcast at our weekly email newsletter at trustinsights.ai slash newsletter. Got questions about what you saw in today's episode? Join our free analytics for marketers Slack group at trustinsights.ai slash analytics for marketers. See you next time.