So What? SEO Ask Us Anything

Well, hey everyone, happy Thursday. Welcome to So What, the Marketing Analytics and Insights live show. Um, you know, for the past few weeks, uh, past few episodes, we've been talking a lot about SEO and content and planning and keywords. And we know for ourselves that when we create content around uh SEO specifically, uh, it tends to do well, but we also know that there's a lot of questions that people still have around the mechanics of SEO, but then also more specific scenarios. And so we thought we would do something a little bit different this week.

And we're doing an Ask Me Anything. And so with this Ask Me Anything, it focused on SEO, and we've collected a fair number of questions uh from our Slack group. If you're interested in participating or asking a question there, you can join us at TrustInsights.ai slash analytics for marketers, or if you have questions about SEO, you can drop them into the comments. Um so Chris, we've collected a fair number of questions around SEO. So where do you want to start?

Let's start. Uh yeah, because we got a ton here. Um let's start with Hannah's question, which is at what point, if any, can content creators say screw FEO SEO and simply create quality content they know their audience loves. SEO feels so prescriptive, so cold. It's as if content creators outsource ideation and creativity to whatever the keyword research tells them.

I know keyword research is only one aspect of SEO, and we can use search tracks to optimize assets and track reports of that assets, but I am bearish on using SEO as a starting point for content creation. So that was the uh long question. Uh what's your guys' take on it so far? Well, it sounds like the short question is do I have to follow an SEO plan if I already know what my audience wants? Um I guess to that, I would say, well, you're already sort of ahead of the game because part of SEO is understanding what your audience wants, what kinds of things resonate with them, what kinds of content attracts people to your website.

If you already know what that is, then really what you're doing is just making sure you're creating those things. And so I would say, yes, you should do some keyword research, but if you already know the kind of content that your audience responds to and that they're craving, it sounds like you have other mechanisms for getting that information. So I'd say go ahead and keep creating that content. John, what do you think? Yeah, I think that's a big part of it because like for example, when we were talking with uh Hrefs about what kind of marketing they do, it's so funny that Tim Solo is like, why do we need all these analytics and what are these things?

And we said, well, Tim, it's because you are your customer. Like you're selling this project to, you know, the your product to CMOs, and you are a CMO, so you know exactly what they look for every day. But the majority of businesses are not that at all. It's you know, the marketing team thinks they might know what prospects want, but in reality they've never actually bought what they're selling. And and those are the situations where yeah, you need SEO to figure out, you know, what are the most common things people search for when they're trying to answer these questions and they're in the buying cycle because everybody makes the mistake of asking the CEO and the VP of marketing, you know, what the topic should be, and they take that as gospel when they've never actually verified that or tested any of that.

Yeah, when you read Google's um search quality grading guidelines, the 172 page document they published on it, there's two big dimensions, right? You can boil the whole thing down to two big well, three three dimensions, but really two. Search quality, needs met. Search quality is is your content high enough quality? Is it does it demonstrate expertise?

Is it authoritative? Is it trustworthy? Is there sufficient amount of main content? Is that main content high quality? Um that's one dimension.

The second dimension is needs met. Does it fulfill the searcher's intent? And if you know the intent of your audience at the various stages of of the your your customer journey, then yeah, you don't need to spend a whole lot of time on on you know ideation from keywords because you you really should be ideating on intent. Uh, if though you don't know uh the intent of your audience, then that is where keyword research can really help. Because there's six layers of of search intent, right?

Um they are recurrent search intent, which is people looking for your thing again, right? Um there is branded search, which is people looking for you by name. There's competitive search, which is people looking for your competitors by name, there's unbranded, right, which is people looking for the solution that your your cohort solves. There's adjacent, which are the search trends people search for for the problem that they have and they don't know the solution, and then there's created intent, which is where you're trying to create something net new. Like IBM just created this term called data fabric, which I think sounds like something you buy at Joanne's Fabrics and make you know cute little addresses out of, but apparently there's there's a whole enterprise thing with that.

So if you don't know the intent of your audience and the language that they use at each of these stages, then yes, this is where topic research really comes in handy. And I would say try not to be slaves to the keywords themselves. Try to focus on the intent and all the topics in that intent. So, like if you're looking for, say analytics consulting, right? You don't just want to focus on analytics, right?

You also want to focus on the problems. You want to focus on change management and all these things that go with that, because that's going to cover multiple stages of the customer journey. Yeah, I think you know, if you already have some kind of a feedback loop set up with your customers, then you're doing essentially the same thing that SEO keyword research does, which is understand what things people want to hear about. And so, you know, I think we've all sort of answered the question in similar ways of SEO keyword research is not the be-all end-all of how or what kind of content you should be creating. If you have other mechanisms to get that information, then that is completely acceptable because to Chris's point, you're answering that question of intent.

Exactly. Okay, let's move on to our next question. Our next question comes from Edwin asking: while written content focused on your target search intent will always help your rankings. How should we prepare on-page factors like multimedia and technical factors like structured data, considering Google's uh mum, which is a multitask unified model intentions, which will that that search model is coming out next year, and it promises to change SEO. So, what do you think, E?

Um back to you, Chris. Well, I'd have to jump on the first one as no, just writing content, not going to guarantee any good SEO action. You know, you can write garbage. So that you know, that is uh an assumption right there out of the gate. Um, technical analysis, everything is out there.

You can go dig into it to find out. I mean that should just be table stakes. You should be getting the technical analysis straight when you get your content delivery platform built. You know, you that should be taking care of itself too when you post videos or images or audio. You shouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot every time that goes out.

Um but you know, that's just my take on how you want to structure that. So in um in Google's own podcast, Search Off the Record, uh, which is clearly by fact they publish it not off the record. Um in the most recent episode, episode 29, they were talking about the importance of things like structured data. Because at one point, one of the uh the technical folks said, our machine learning models are good enough now to infer structured data. Do we do we still need it?

And um Gary Ilius, who's one of the the tech leads on in the SEO group, was saying, yeah, you still need it. Not because we need to know you know what it is, but it's a way to uh sort of fact check and/or override the machine's inferences. If the machine scans a page and infers that it's about, say, strollers, right? And the page is actually, about wagons, your structured data that you provide will override the inference and say, okay, you're telling me explicitly this is actually waggets, and you know, uh, yes, our wagons look like strollers, but it it this is really about strollers. So, from a from that perspective, structured data is still very, very important.

And uh, from what they said in the podcast was it will continue to be important for some time until they feel like the machine learning models are are good enough to not make as many mistakes as they do right now. The multimedia one is and this is really important. Um, you've got to provide the metadata with your multimedia. So every time, for example, Trust Insights uploads a YouTube video. We take the audio from our show and get it transcribed by Otter, Otter.ai.

If you go to TrustInsights uh uh.ai slash auto, you can see what that's all about. Um and that produces the closed captions, and we load that because we've trained the model that we use with otter on our specific way of speaking, even how to spell Katie's last name properly. Uh and that overrides YouTube's built-in auto captions and also says to Google, hey, here's what this is about. And we publish with our video the tags, the description, the title, all these these things that are attributes that Google can then return in search. When someone searches for trust insights, you know, our YouTube videos may show up.

In podcasts, if you're using the MP3 format, you have ID3 tags in any good podcasting host, like Libson, for example. We've been using Libson for John Wood, we didn't libsen since like the started. Yeah, 2005. So coming up on uh 12 years. No, you can't even do the math on it forget that.

It's a long time. One of the things you can do is you can edit the ID three tags that the metadata that's burned into the file itself. It says this is what this audio file is about. It has your show image, it has the length, it has the ratings, and that's all in the file itself. Again, multitask unified model is looking at how do things in different formats relate to each other.

So if I type in best socks to wear for hiking Mount Fuji, it's going to look at images of Mount Fuji. It's going to look at product reviews. It's going to look at podcast audio and all these things and bring together search results that say this is what we think is you're really searching for. So if we if we're doing a good enough job with this data, providing this metadata with our all of our multimedia will do better. Where I think people are going to run into trouble is if you have a lot of services out there that promise like super easy podcasting, which is fine.

But you can't tune the metadata. So it may not be as good in search because you don't have that granular level of control over it as you do with a service like Libson, where you can just type stuff in and say, okay, burn this into my audio file, please. So lots of work to be done there for people. Got it. Lots of work to be done there.

We've got a one uh came in live here from Brian. Uh, how long until rank brain makes keyword targeting no longer useful or effective? Anyone want to take this? Yeah, I wager that it's already too late from what I've read. But what do you where are you at?

Uh so a couple things. Rank brain is only a part of Google's model, and it is this part that's specifically on how to deal with sparse queries. So queries where almost nobody searches for it. So, for example, a search would be like what color shirt does John wear while wearing today, right? That's a query that probably not many people type into Google.

Everybody wants to know. And so Rank Brain will attempt to infer based on the language being used. Here are some the related things that we think could possibly help to answer this query we've never seen before. Um it is not part of the uh the core stuff. Where John, you are absolutely right is that the BERT model, which came out in 2019, keyword targeting is not useless, but it is elevated.

So remember five or six episodes ago, we were talking about natural language processing. We talked about the token, the word, the phrase, the sentence, the paragraph, the document. So this hierarchy. The keyword at the word level or the token level really is devalued, right? Even at the phrase level, it's now at sort of the topic level.

So Google saying, if you type in espresso, it will return results in your local area that are coffee shops. Even if the coffee shop does not have the word espresso necessarily like on their homepage because it knows from a semantics perspective, when you're talking about espresso, espresso is a kind of coffee, here's a kind of coffee shop. So what we have to do is, and this goes back to what Hannah was asking, intent. What is the intent of a query? As we put together our keywords and phrases, what is the intent of it?

And then if you're if you know your customers well, what are the two following intents after that? So somebody searches for a coffee shop near me. What's the next thing that they're gonna ask? Is it open? Right?

What's the next thing I'm going to ask? How do I get there? And you know, Google will try and answer these and find the the content that will best satisfy those queries. So it sounds like it's not that keyword targeting won't be effective or useful, but keyword targeting on its own with no other you know piece of the puzzle basically is what will make it no longer effective. And so it needs to be layered within all of those other pieces.

That's exactly right. Exactly right. All right. So Brian, thank you for the question. Whoops.

Let's go to next uh JC asking, do you have some examples of some core content models? And we do. I think probably the one that we've talked about the most for like I don't know five years. Uh is the what we call the transmedia content framework. And it's a fancy fancy way of just saying make stuff in the richest format you can and then use it to spool out.

So Katie, you actually want to talk through uh folks what this what this model really talks about. Yeah so it's basically um sort of the definition of work smarter not harder. And so what we talk about with the transmedia framework is that you can create one piece of content and use it multiple ways. And so it helps you scale the amount of content you're able to create so today right now we are creating a video that also has audio associated with it. So our video is one piece of content.

Then when we pull out the audio, that's another type of content that can be a podcast. We also will have the AI transcription, that's another kind of content that's then a blog post. And so we can put all of those things together into one, you know, big piece of content, or we can continue to pull them apart into smaller and smaller pieces. And so we can take a snippet and post that on Twitter. I'm like, hey, did you catch our episode today?

It was about this. And so quoting it directly. Or we can take little uh 30-second videos and post those across, you know, Instagram or TikTok or wherever people are watching us. Um, we can then repurpose this episode and repost it in the newsletter as hey, here's some answers to common questions about SEO. So there's a lot of different ways that we can use this one piece of content that we're creating right now just by sitting down and talking to each other about here are the questions people have about SEO.

So that's really the beauty of a transmedia framework is you create something once in a super rich format, as Chris mentioned, and then you start to pull it apart into smaller pieces. And one of the keys with this framework too is pay attention to the metrics for each of the fragments of content you make because you may find that some things resonate better with others, right? So that 30-second video you put up on Instagram may not do anything, but you put it up on LinkedIn and it might take off, but then you go, ah, even though it's the same thing, we're testing it in different places, and we can see what our audience reacts to. You put it up on TikTok, and you know, 18 people will all message you, and you're like, I don't even know how to reply. Uh that would be me.

Um it but you can tell where your audience is when you atomize your content like this. I mean, this is a concept that this is not a new concept. Um, our our friend and former coworker, Todd Jefferson, came up with this concept in 2008. Uh, it is just uh we've decided to make it video first because that's where you get the most data from, and then spin it into a whole bunch of different ways. Yeah, I mean, the other thing is um, you know, so we've been one of the strategies we've been doing in the background is taking all of our different videos, whether there be you know webinars or talks or live streams or podcasts, and we've started to bundle them together into playlists on our YouTube channel.

That playlist then becomes our basically our training library for other people to figure out well, what do they know about this topic, or what can they teach me about those things? What also then becomes um you know somewhat of a sales tool for John. So when someone says, Well, we want to hire Trust Insights for SEO, what do they know about it? He can point to 15 different videos where we've been talking about the mechanics and the you know theories and philosophies and tactics about SEO. And so we've created a sales tool without creating a sales tool.

All right. Uh next up, Chris asks, not me, uh another Chris. Um, are core web vitals overhyped? No, absolutely not. And so um what so I'm not the expert on core web vitals, but I do pay attention to our monthly reports.

And so we've talked about Core Web Vitals, you know, on the podcast, on the live stream, and my interpretation of Core Web Vitals is this is Google's way of telling you your technical SEO pieces, the performance of your website. So are your images taking too long to load? Therefore, you're gonna get dinged on how quickly you show up or or the ranking in which you show up for a search result. And so it's the technical side of your SEO of your website. So basically it's Google's way of saying, hey, your website's really good, or your website needs a lot of work.

And if it needs a lot of work, we're just not going to show you in the search results because it's not worth your time or the user's time. Exactly. The what we don't know, and Google's net will never tell us how much weight in the search algorithms and models uh core vitals play, but we do know they're in there. They have publicly stated they're in there. Um and we know that they're they're part of an overall larger initiative, right?

So um core web vitals are a subset of mobile friendliness and mobile usability, and mobile usability is a subset of page experience. Uh if you look in Search Console, that's how it's laid out. And we know that page experience is a ranking factor. Um, Google takes this into account. So if you get core web vitals correct, you reduce the any any penalties or any drag that they have on your search results.

It's kind of like uh you know, running with a five-pound weight strapped to your leg, right? Yeah, it's it's slowing you down. Um it's it's it's not doing good things, uh, or if you get it right, you can you can outrun maybe somebody who's bigger but not as fast. Things I will not be trying. Um, let's go next.

We have um Betsy asks: in a world where we all wear a lot of hats, how often do you suggest looking at your SEO page performance and optimizing? First, I just have to laugh at it's like in a world in a world where we wear many heads. Um in that world, uh yeah, you've gotta have again the it's just back to the table stakes of is that I don't even think optimizing text on the page is that big a deal anymore because you just it needs to be quality content. That goes back to Hannah's thing of just write good stuff. You don't have to worry as much about arranging it as long as you got the right voice.

But then Yeah, you've gotta have the the um you know search console stuff. It's like the pages have to load, you can't have so much JavaScript that it chokes to five seconds, you know, all that kind of stuff has gotta be there because uh you know the worst thing that happens to is you're just not getting crawled because something's broken. I mean, then you're basically dead in in the water. Exactly. There's three layers to Google, right?

There's crawl, index, and rank. Crawling happens uh on pretty much Google's own schedule. Uh, but roughly they crawl sites anywhere between 48 hours and a week. And at a minimum, I would say if here's what I would say if you have an a good multi-touch attribution model, you should be looking at it on a regular frequent basis, like monthly, right? And in that attribution model, if organic search is in your top three uh you know, source mediums or channels that drive conversions for you, then you should be starting to look at your your search traffic and and data in search console probably weekly to see like did something go wrong this week.

Um we have had cases with clients where they lost uh a substantial amount of traffic and didn't even know until we did the next month's report. Like, by the way, you lost half your traffic. Uh they're like, Why did somebody tell us? Like, well, that's why we keep telling you to check check those um search console stats and sign up for the free alerts built in. Well, and I think that that's the thing.

You don't necessarily have to be, you know, every day trying to go in and optimize, but at the very at the minimum, sign up for those alerts to see if anything is breaking. And then you can go in and optimize. And so I would say, you know, once a month, once a quarter, you know, going through all of your content, re-optimizing it, prioritizing like your most valuable pages, the pages that are most visited, the pages where people convert the most, making sure those are fixed up, not broken, contents refreshed, those things. But yeah, I don't think that it's necessary to be in there every single day. Just getting the alerts of like things are good, things are bad is probably enough.

Exactly. Um I would uh but I would say the more important searches, the more the more attention you've got to give it. It's you know, there's there's no way around that. Um Hector asks, as this came in live, are you using similar approaches to optimize for voice and type searches? I mean, optimizing as if all searches are voice, how do you guys do it?

You know, it's it's interesting because we we know that the way people interact with a smart machine or whatever they're called, like Google, an assistant, an AI assistant. I don't know. I have the terrible terminology, but basically you search in a different way, and so if I'm talking to my phone, I might say, Hey Google, where can I find the nearest coffee shop? Whereas if you're on a Google search bar, you might say nearest coffee shop, and so you're taking out that where is or how do I? And I think if you're covering optimizing for the question, the how do I, where is, you know, what is, then I think you're kind of covering both things.

But you know, Chris, John, what do you guys think? Well, I have to laugh at people, I was just saying people jumping in on this. You have your use case first. Like d if you're getting minimal traffic from the website and you know, a few leads a month, don't presume that suddenly hundreds of people are gonna be asking their smart speakers for all kinds, you know, all kinds of questions about you because that's not the case. Um, and yeah, you know, I have she who must not be named on my desk right here.

And you know, I can tell you throughout the whole family the use cases are all like what's the weather and play this song for me, you know. So I think people are getting wrapped up in that. But a short answer though, and I'd be interested in what you think about this one, Chris, is that it's just you only one result comes up. So if you're doing good SEO and you're number one on the SERP page, then maybe you have a shot at voice, but otherwise, um get back to work on uh SERP results. Yeah, exactly.

You're number one or you're nothing. Um with the the voice searches, again, this goes back to what we're talking about with natural language processing. You have a core token or core term that you're focused on, and then to Katie's point, you have all the stuff that goes with it. So one of the things that you should be looking at is in your search data, uh, you know, I'll pull up uh hrefs here as an example. Uh almost every SEO tool has the ability to spit out questions, right?

So I put in coffee Shop and it spits out, you know, there are 6,000 different questions that people ask. Uh there's another one that uh we love to talk about here. Let's go to answer the public. And we'll put the exact same thing, and we'll just put in coffee shop. Let's go.

We don't want UK because we're not there. But I would imagine you would get similar results. That's that's true. And it's going to generate a similar set of questions in a in a fun visualization. This is sort of the way that you approach a nested search strategy.

That's a lovely ad. So where is coffee shop? Which coffee shop, and so on and so forth. A nested search strategy means a page has a concept or a core token, and then there are augments you put on prefixes, suffixes, additional words, clarifications, location indicators, things like that. This is how Google's NLP works.

And so on your page, you might have you might say, This page, we want to target the term coffee shop near me. And then you have literally on the page, you know, where's the coffee shop nearest to Boston, Massachusetts? So what are the hours of you know this coffee shop in Boston, Massachusetts? And you figure out the voice specific questions that someone is going to ask in a very natural speaking way, but it's in those in those questions are embedded the core search terms. So you're still checking the box on those.

That's one of the things we say about highly competitive search terms. You may be competing with you know Starbucks. If you have a little indie coffee shop, but in local search and in voice search and things, you may have opportunities if you structure your content really well. Well, and I think that that goes back to a couple of the other questions that we were talking about in terms of the intent and the quality of the content. If your content is answering those what, why, how, where questions, then this becomes less of a concern for you because your content is already doing that.

It's so Google's going to pick up on that intent. So as you're writing, you know, your blog post about natural language processing. What is natural language processing? How do I approach natural language processing? How do I use it?

Where do I get started? You should be answering all of those questions so that when Google's trying to find the responses, they're like, oh, well, John answered those questions in his content. I'm going to serve his up because it's right here. He organized it really well. Exactly.

All right. Next up, Donna asks, how do you set up your on page SEO for optimal search for the content you're creating if you don't know how to code? Do you need to be able to code to do this? I mean, that's a I mean, I don't know the answer to that question. That's a very good question.

And in again, in the most recent episode of search uh off the record, the Google folks said, Yeah, you need to know HTML. Yeah, you it you need to know at least some HTML to tune up because there are a lot of things like a CMS like WordPress will do automatically out of the box for you. And there are great plugins like Yoast or Rank Math that can help optimize and build those things without you having to manually stuff it in a page. But there's some stuff you have to do by hand, like subheadings on a page, you should know how to do that. And more important, which is what they were saying on their podcast, you've got to be able to open up the source, you know, view source in your web browser, look at your page and go, can you understand the HTM on your page?

Or even better, go into Search Console and look at uh how Google sees your page and say, okay, can I tune up what Google sees so that what Google sees is what I want it to see? And for that, you do have to you have to at least be able to read HTML. You may not have to type it by hand manually, you know, but you've got to be able to examine it. So this is probably gonna sound terrible, and I'm sure I'll probably get some uh hate for this. I don't associate HTML with code.

And so I know, I mean, I know technically it is writing code, but I guess to me it's one of those second nature things of like you to your point, you need to understand it, you need to know what is. My brain doesn't even associate it when you say coding, I'm thinking more of like you know, Python and R and those kinds of things. And I'm like, I it's HTML, it's uh of course you know it. Yeah, if it's not compiled, it's just markup. Well, and I think that that's it.

So that's why I was like, wait, do you really know you need to know? But yeah, HTML, absolutely. But you know, there are a lot of really good like writing assistance out there that you don't have to know, so you don't have to like pull it up from scratch and be like, okay, is it bracket, bold, be this, embed, whatever? There's a lot of really good free resources out there that will help you. You can say, This is what I want to do, and it'll say, This is how you write that in HTML.

Um, the other two things that Google Engineer said you need to be able to do is CSS and JavaScript. Uh, particularly JavaScript, you need to know because you need to know what's running on your page and how to diagnose what happens when scripts lock up and basically prevent your page from loading, uh, which kind of sucks. Let me show you a real quick example. This is Google Search Console, which we've shown many times on this show, and you can see I put up just the trust Insights web homepage. There's a button here called view crawled page.

And this shows you what Google itself sees in your code and your content. This is what the HTML that they're talking about, you need to be able to understand. If you compare this to your page's actual source code, you will notice there are substantial differences. And the reason for this is that remember we talked about the three stages of Google crawl, index, rank. Part of crawl is to download your HTML and Google cleans it up for you because they're like, people are morons when it comes to writing HTML.

They put the those stuff everywhere. So it makes its best guess as to what it sees on the page and renders it for its indexing. If you see stuff in the crawl version that is not in your production, or you see something in here that is, and it's not uh it's been removed from your page, you need to go back to your website and go, why did Google remove that? Like why did Google cut those things out? And then ask yourself, do we need them?

Are they important? Because if Google says it's not even going to bother indexing it, then it's just bloat on your site because Google's not going to see it, it's not going to impact your SEO unless it does things that are UI, very user interface specific. But this it's fascinating because Google also reorders things, it changes the order of your text. Um, it will it prioritizes things like headings and subheadings because it says this is how I understand your page from uh a language section. If you say, you know, what is change management?

How does change management work? These are you know H2 subheadings. Google says, I understand that these are more important blocks of text than the paragraph you wrote about change management. And so when somebody's searching for this page semantically, I should probably match it more towards somebody searching for what is change management than somebody talking about the process of change management itself. The NLP is very good, but this stuff, the structured data, helps a lot.

Um so for to Donna's question, yeah, you need to be able to at least do some of this. So it sounds like what you're saying is moving, you know, next few months, next few years, it's not enough to just know how to write content. You need to either be paired with someone who can do the technical piece, or you need to learn how to do that for yourself. Or hire an agency to help you. If only we knew one.

Yeah, it does only have to be built once, right? I mean, you you're not gonna have some kind of system where somebody has to go in and be cherry-picking H1 through six and every single post. Like you get that built and you get it done. Exactly. Uh, last question here, because we're we're running up on time, uh, is from Matt.

And Matt asks, how much or can can you tell in SEO how much or how little a specific page contributes to conversion goals from SEO? Yes, you can. Impossible. Tell us more, Katie. Well, you know, I I don't personally know of any good out-of-the-box tool that you could do this with.

Uh, but basically what you're talking about is attribution modeling. So you want to know on your own website which pages are contributing the most towards conversions. Um, and we, trust Insights, just happen to have a report that does this using our Markov chain model, which is a kind of attribution model, attribution model being basically what gets the credit for doing the work. And so similar to an attribution model that would show you which marketing channels are doing the work and in which order and in which order we've applied the same methodology to the pages on a website to say which pages on our website are helping to assist drive the most conversions. It's not a true assisted conversion, but these all played a part.

So they made a b they may have played a big part, a small part, or there may have been multiple pages that led to it, but these were the pages that contributed the most. So they're the kids within the group project that stayed up all night doing all of the work, and everybody else, like the contact page, just you know gets the credit. What isn't shown here that it specifically answers Max's question uh I think really well is because this is based in Google Analytics data, this is what what pages overall helped conversion. We can run this restricted to organic search traffic to say, okay, what pages that were organic search driven converted the most because it may be different. You may have um if you you have uh a really strong email marketing program, you may have you know a ton of pages that are featured in your emails, but you're not see it's it's masking what search is doing because your email is just just your jam.

And so it's possible to to build this just with organic search traffic. So uh yes, the the answer in short is yes, you can see how much a page contributes to your overall goals. And the other the flip side is you can also see uh if a page is doing well at being efficient. So in this case, how many visits does it take to a page before that is that page helps convert somebody? So we have the our Instagram uh webinar from uh last year, seven visits to convert somebody, which is great.

Um the other hand, our expertise page, 270 visits. So that that that takes a lot more traffic uh to get somebody to convert. And then the one question survey obviously, you know, is is huge right now because it's not there's not a conversion board. Um so these two reports paired together can absolutely tell you where you should be focusing your time. And I would say that from an SEO perspective, run these just with organic search data to see like what pages search is helping uh drive the most.

And then the pages that are the most efficient and the most effective, uh, those are candidates for priority optimization. Say, okay, can we add more content? Can we improve the quality of the content? Can we uh make sure that Google's indexed it? You know, one of the things we discovered uh recently was that not everything was getting indexed, and a few pages, Kate that you had put up recently on our case studies, they weren't in the index, so we forced them through manually.

And we should, you know, just to be clear, that's a report that's methodology that we have built ourselves. Uh, do you either of you know of any tools off the shelf that can do that kind of analysis? Uh I think there was there's a similar, there's a a channel level report that's available in Analytics 360. So if you're willing to invest you know the quarter million dollars a year for that, um you can have that in the attribution 360 product. The content level one, I don't think that I don't think there is one that I've seen.

I could be wrong. I you know I have not had a chance to try every tool on the market because I have a day job. Uh so I don't know. So basically come on down and get your reports from Trust Insights. Big winter ball.

All right. I think that's a good indicator that we're probably gonna wrap up here. Um thanks to everyone. Thanks to everyone who submitted questions. Um we'll see you in the Slack group.

If you had a question that we somehow missed, uh, we can answer in the Slack group and things. Um there will be no show next week because it is uh Thanksgiving here in the United States of America, which is where we are based. So uh we will be um injuring ourselves with the copious quantities of food. Uh if you are not in the United States, we wish you a happy uh show and uh catch up on the replays over on our YouTube channel, which we uh we'll have uh in the credits, but thanks for tuning in. Thanks for watching today.

Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you're watching it. For more resources and to learn more, check out the Trust Insights Podcast at TrustInsights.ai slash TI podcast at our weekly email newsletter at TrustInsights.ai slash newsletter. Got questions about what you saw in today's episode? Join our free Analytics for Marketers Slack group at TrustInsights.ai slash analytics for marketers. See you next time.